Mrs.Nesbit's Diner - Message Board / Forum

At CC

You are not logged in.

Announcement

WebSite Links: CC HomePage  MrsNesbits Homepage  Guinea Pigs Home Crochet Home  The CC Store
 

Pic Of The week

Happy Christmas & Merry New Year
Categories and forums are based on the topics generated by our Members.

Log in to join in the conversation

 

#1 05-07-2008 01:25:21

AKA Steve
Web Master
Registered: 11-29-2007
Posts: 4215
Website

The Future of the Universe

There appears to be a disagreement in the scientific community about the nature of black holes.
On one side of the Isle sits Stephen hawking, who believes that, within this universe, matter is destroyed by black holes.
He proposes this in spite of the law that "nothing can ever be created or destroyed" and explains that, it is ok if matter is destroyed in this universe because "string theory", or "M theory" tells us that there are multiple parallel universes and that, even though matter is destroyed in this universe, it is preserved in parallel universes and so, the law is not violated.

The other side of the fence has a fairly simple answer to this proposal and largely consists of the idea that, the idea is rediculous.
The alternate side of the fence takes the position that, matter within a black hole is preserved in a singularity, plain and simple.

I propose a third idea, in my theory, matter in neither preserved in a singularity nor is it destroyed by the black hole.

M theory describes the origin of the universe as having having begun by a rip in the 11th dimension that caused an amount of matter to seep off and explode and expand into a new space time.

Lets say that this is true, at the moment of the birth of the universe, matter is blasted into tiny bits of matter, expanding in all directions, as is the belief, according to the big bang theory.
After half a billion years or so, the matter finally begins to coalesce into the very first star this universe has ever known; this star would then be the most dense object in the universe, an important fact to keep in mind.

Einstein described gravity as a warping of space time, objects in space bend space and as a result, smaller objects become caught in the dip in space and pulled downward toward the center, you may have seen this graphically illustrated in a two dimensional plane with the sun at the center of a grid, its weight bending the grid downward while the planets circle around it like water down a drain.

So, now that we have all of that understood, lets imagine that the universe is like a balloon, or a bubble and that all matter within it is pressing against the edge of this bubble.
Matter not only expands the size of this bubble, but simultaneously, on a more local scale, it bends the shape of the bubble, IE: Einsteins warped space.

Keeping in mind that at the beginning of the universe, all matter was  spread out into tiny partials, and it was only later that it began to condense into more dense structures.
Consider then that, the particles of matter in the universe are not dense enough to tear the fabric of space time and escape back to the point from which they started.
Enter the black hole.
I think by now my point is obvious, a black hole provides the first object in the universe, with a density large enough to pierce the fabric of space time and creating an opening back to the 11th dimensions.
Just like a bullet shot in a pressurized air plane, everything close enough to the black hole is sucked into its immense gravitation pull.

Matter is therefore, neither destroyed, nor preserved in the universe, it instead escapes.

Further, current scientific belief is that, the universe is continuing to expand, it is accelerating and eventually, all of the matter within it will be so dispersed that planets, stars and even black holes will cease to exist and the universe will become cold and dark.
If however, the universe is like a balloon, and black holes do pierce the "fabric of space time", then it might also be reasonable to say that, as space time expands, bent by the expansion of dark energy, it may finally reach a breaking point and collapse.
This collapse would be nothing like that purposed by the "big crunch" theory, it would be more akin to the air in a bubble, expanding outward until the bubble breaks and the air within it, recombines with the air outside.

Scientists seem to like laws, "matter can never be created nor destroyed", but there is another law that says "if you bend it far enough, it will break".

Please feel free to correct any misstatements in this or debate it as a whole.


Nesbits Avatar: Arnold Rimmer - the Hologram, and his friend Mr. Flibble
www.mrsnesbitsdiner.com/forum   Nesbits Forum

Offline

 

#2 05-07-2008 02:05:09

Seminolewind
Platinum Member
From: spring hill, Florida
Registered: 02-10-2008
Posts: 1613

Re: The Future of the Universe

So, this is on your mind at 4 am in the morning??????????


I was going to be good, but I got bored
  http://www.myspace.com/kseminolewind
                                         .

Offline

 

#3 05-07-2008 04:14:36

Wildchicken
Gold Member
From: Hot Hot Hot!
Registered: 03-07-2008
Posts: 899

Re: The Future of the Universe

shocked


Treat each day as your last. One day you will be right. chickie3

Offline

 

#4 05-07-2008 05:22:33

Firechicken
Silver Member
From: Covington, GA
Registered: 02-03-2008
Posts: 433

Re: The Future of the Universe

So basically you are saying that the universe is a giant bubble blown by a kid known as the 11th dimension. So Little Suzie 11, if you will, must have bought the cheap bubble soap from the dollar store because her bubble has a hole in it. A black hole. And being that you cannot destroy matter completely but it can break we, one little atom of spit stuck in the giant bubble, are going to eventually either get sucked out of a black hole or just pop with the whole universe and land back on little Suzie 11's lips from which we came.  Well why don't the black holes cause the bubble to pop? Maybe they are causing the bubble to pop, but it is on such a grand scale that it is just happening really slowly to us, because we think in terms of years and such as a long time, when in reality it is just a blink in the cosmic scheme of things. 

Or maybe the black holes are completely internal to the bubble. Maybe they were created by other alien spit atoms as a form of travel from one drop of spit to another within the universal dollar store bubble. Or is that worm holes?

Or maybe black holes are the heavy glob of spit at the bottom of the bubble threatening to drop to the ground (which would be another dimension seeing as how we came from little Suzi 11's mouth and not the ground where little LS11 is standing.) And the spit is so heavy and massive with such a gravitational pull that it is going to pull everything else down with it until it breaks the universal bubble and plop us down into another dimension. Known as LS11 mom's kitchen floor. What happens then? Do we meet yet another dimension known as LS11's mom's mop?

The possibilities are endless.














This is what you get from me before breakfast and after a cup of coffee. haha

Last edited by Firechicken (05-07-2008 05:23:15)


The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine.
Feel free to pm or email me if you like my wifes jewelry

Offline

 

#5 05-07-2008 05:54:48

palabeco
Silver Member
From: S.W. PA
Registered: 03-12-2008
Posts: 163

Re: The Future of the Universe

http://www.smileyhut.com/confused/dunno.gif


Happiness is where we find it, but rarely where we seek it.

Offline

 

#6 05-07-2008 09:11:27

riderken
Gold Member
From: NW Mo.
Registered: 02-22-2008
Posts: 840

Re: The Future of the Universe

Well there is a couple of things I would like to ad.

But at another time .
In the next dimension at this generation is definatly not up for the final analiysis.



P.S. I am taking my chickens with me.

Last edited by riderken (05-07-2008 09:12:30)

Offline

 

#7 05-07-2008 09:13:07

paganfish
The Ancient Chicken Sage
From: Fleming, Colorado
Registered: 02-02-2008
Posts: 10120

Re: The Future of the Universe

Firechicken wrote:

So basically you are saying that the universe is a giant bubble blown by a kid known as the 11th dimension. So Little Suzie 11, if you will, must have bought the cheap bubble soap from the dollar store because her bubble has a hole in it. A black hole. And being that you cannot destroy matter completely but it can break we, one little atom of spit stuck in the giant bubble, are going to eventually either get sucked out of a black hole or just pop with the whole universe and land back on little Suzie 11's lips from which we came.  Well why don't the black holes cause the bubble to pop? Maybe they are causing the bubble to pop, but it is on such a grand scale that it is just happening really slowly to us, because we think in terms of years and such as a long time, when in reality it is just a blink in the cosmic scheme of things. 

Or maybe the black holes are completely internal to the bubble. Maybe they were created by other alien spit atoms as a form of travel from one drop of spit to another within the universal dollar store bubble. Or is that worm holes?

Or maybe black holes are the heavy glob of spit at the bottom of the bubble threatening to drop to the ground (which would be another dimension seeing as how we came from little Suzi 11's mouth and not the ground where little LS11 is standing.) And the spit is so heavy and massive with such a gravitational pull that it is going to pull everything else down with it until it breaks the universal bubble and plop us down into another dimension. Known as LS11 mom's kitchen floor. What happens then? Do we meet yet another dimension known as LS11's mom's mop?

The possibilities are endless.














This is what you get from me before breakfast and after a cup of coffee. haha

OMG! I am dying here! ofl ofl ofl ofl

You have such a way of putting things...it has me in stitches. I had to read it to my SO and we both laughed.

Steve- We saw Nova's  "Monster of the Milkyway" last night! AND they spoke about the very thing you were talking about. The grid! I saw it in my mind's eye again! As I read your post and how you describe it, I mean.

Then Fire :hatch comes in with the LS theory and I spit my coffee ALL over the place.

ofl ofl ofl ofl

I love this place!

roll

Last edited by paganfish (05-07-2008 09:14:06)


"I put a capital N on nature and call it my church."
-Frank Lloyd Wright
smile

Offline

 

#8 05-07-2008 12:27:20

Shelly's Zoo
Silver Member
From: Redding, CA
Registered: 04-09-2008
Posts: 339

Re: The Future of the Universe

Now the funny thing is that our children and our selves where introduced to this concept in grade school by a renown Doctor.


OK after the 18th of May I can no longer buy or swap eggs. I can swap if you would be able/willing to ship at the end of July. I am going on a week long trip and I can find folks to feed the older birds but not the babies. So if you see me shoping in the egg area send me out with a firm NO! And a smak on the nose.
Thank you

Offline

 

#9 05-07-2008 01:05:16

Queen of the Lilliputians
Gone fishing
From: Maine
Registered: 02-03-2008
Posts: 3907
Website

Re: The Future of the Universe

I watched a special on the Membrane Theory, and love the idea of alternate Universes.  But..

  I think the truth is that our scientists are trying to explain something we don't, and can't, understand.  We like to pretend we are big and bad, and understand all.  In the concept of the Universe, we are smaller than dust motes.  I just haven't heard a theory I really, really buy.. not even the Big Bang.  I'm NOT a scientist, and therefore I am not as well informed as they are.  But again, I don't think we are really even close.

That said- my favorite theory is that we are all cells in a Giant's Body.  We don't realize we are just cells, because we are too small.  Or maybe even make us smaller.. mere atoms.

Ok.. and now that you know how weird I really am.. I'm going to play with my chickens.  chickenwalkin


Former ruler-wielding nun at a catholic school

Offline

 

#10 05-07-2008 08:46:29

AKA Steve
Web Master
Registered: 11-29-2007
Posts: 4215
Website

Re: The Future of the Universe

First, let me thank you for such informed and provocative response to my proposal. tongue
I am going to have a difficult job in attempting to counter the ideas that many of you have presented, despite this, I will do the best that I can, and hope that you can bare with me.
I understand that my model is simplistic, in much the same way that a model of a black hole on the grid of a flat plane is simplistic, be that as it may, I still think it deserves a look.

The statement that has me the most baffled was this one made by palabeco

http://www.smileyhut.com/confused/dunno.gif.

I am afraid that I cannot come up with an argument to this statement and would ask for clarification so that I may better understand your meaning. Sorry for my lack of comprehension.

my favorite theory is that we are all cells in a Giant's Body.  We don't realize we are just cells, because we are too small.  Or maybe even make us smaller.. mere atoms.

This supposes that planetary systems operate with the same forces that govern the parts of an atom, a thought that has long been disproven.
If our solar system acted like an atom, rather then orbiting our sun, our planet would appear in random places around the sun in an entirety unpredictable manner and rather then gravity being a major factor in the formation of solar systems, electromagnetism would be the dominant force that binds the solar system together.
Although, the concepts itself cannot be completely discounted, the origin of the theory and the observations that lead to it, no longer seem to validate the idea.

As for firechickens summation  of my proposal; very funny but;
Your statements seem to stem from one or both of two possible ideas;
You seem to presume that I have a complete lack of understanding of the scale of objects within the universe and the scale of the universe itself,
alternately statements you made were based on your own lack of the same.
The statements also appear to confuse my ideas about black holes with my ideas about dark energy, these are two separate forces and should not be confused with each other.

The Horton hears a who concept is, once again, based on the concept that atoms and planetary systems function in the same manner and with the same types of forces.
Although, this is a cute idea, based on an interesting philosophical concept, does not have any basis in truth within current scientific understanding.
I would, however point out that this concept was interpreted by a person(AKA Dr. Seuss) of who's wisdom and incite, as a whole, is vastly underrated by the context of your argument.

Finally, I have yet to hear an astrophysicist's or quantum physicist's that claimed to know all of the answers;
to the contrary, scientists usually describe what they know as, largely incomplete, with an acknowledgment that, much of what is believed to be true, may in fact be proven false, as new information is revealed.
In the recent past, Scientists were under the belief that the universe would slow its  expansion and possibly reverse direction, this is now known to be the opposite of the truth, in fact the universe is accelerating;
The prime suspect for this acceleration is dark energy.

I'm not sure there is much that I can add to my arguments at this time.
For anyone who was interested in this subject but had little to say, I offer some key words and phrases that might be helpful to understand when making a case , for or against my proposed idea.

Matter
Gravity
Energy
Density
Space Time
Atom
Electro Magnetism
Black Hole
Worm Hole
Dark Matter
M theory (string theory)
Dark Energy
Big Bang

The paradox that pertains to the gravitational forces of galaxies and the proposed solution.
The nature of dark energy and its role in the big bang and the expansion of the universe.

I look forward to more of your arguments and discussion on this subject.

Steve

Oh and one more thing, hope you got the coffee cleaned up ok pagan rotfl


Nesbits Avatar: Arnold Rimmer - the Hologram, and his friend Mr. Flibble
www.mrsnesbitsdiner.com/forum   Nesbits Forum

Offline

 

Board footer

Return to Crossing Show Recent

Return to Nesbits Diner Show Recent

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson